Le Cercle des ufologues Index du Forum

Le Cercle des ufologues
Forum d'études du phénomène ufologique
ProfilProfil   Se connecter pour vérifier ses messages privésSe connecter pour vérifier ses messages privés   ConnexionConnexion   FAQFAQ   RechercherRechercher   MembresMembres   GroupesGroupes S’enregistrerS’enregistrer

Guadalupe events

Poster un nouveau sujet   Répondre au sujet    Le Cercle des ufologues Index du Forum -> Forum in English -> Investigations made by the forum about unexplained mysteries -> Fatima events
Sujet précédent :: Sujet suivant  
Auteur Message

Hors ligne

Inscrit le: 01 Sep 2006
Messages: 1 361
Localisation: Nantes
J'accepte La charte: Oui j'ai lu et pris connaissance de la charte, j'e l’accepte et je m’engage à la respécter

MessagePosté le: 08/07/2008 20:11:10    Sujet du message: Guadalupe events Répondre en citant

Ici Arrow Ici

J'ai pas tout lu et je ne sais pas si l'auteur est sérieux, mais j'ai voulu le garder au cas où pour faire des comparaisons avec Fatima.


The Guadalupe Event

By Johannes Fiebag, Ph.D.
Edited and Transcribed by Katharina Wilson


The significance of apparitions for the hypothesis of historical, as well as current encounters of extraterrestrial intelligences (ETIs), does not seem to have been fully comprehended until now. Apparitions are normally rejected by scientists and are usually accepted by theologians. Apparitions of the Virgin Mary are normally only accepted by the Catholic church.

This, however, appears to be a serious misinterpretation (Fiebag 1986, 1995). One alternative explanation relates to the objective and perceptible secondary phenomena of present day UFO events. In many ways these modern events parallel the series of apparitions that occurred in 1917, in Fatima, Portugal, (Vallée 1975, and Keel 1971).

Such phenomena include disks, like an "aircraft of light," described exactly in these terms by the witnesses of the fifth apparition. Also observed were double supersonic detonations, light protuberances, electro-static charges, moving "stars," mysterious white flowers or snow that dropped down from the "aircraft of light," but disappeared when it made contact with the ground. These descriptions of "snow" or mysterious white "flowers" are quite similar to the descriptions of "angel hair" that are well known from some famous UFO cases.

With the Fatima case, there is also the likelihood of the physical manipulation of the three visionaries by an unknown medicine or drug-like mixture. This is inferred from the fact that some kind of unusual time-lapse occurred to the three children. The final and strongest event that leads researchers to believe this was much more than an apparition are the reports of a rotating silvery disk. This disk was observed by as many as 70,000 people who mistakenly believed it to be the sun.

In keeping with the apparition / UFO connection hypothesis, the figure of the Virgin Mary could be interpreted as some kind of holographic projection. This projection could be similar, but not identical to modern holographic three dimensional laser photos. Holographic projections have also been reported in recent UFO cases. The "beautiful woman" could have been a virtual figure. Produced by a highly developed technology, it would be able to effect its environment for and during the time of the apparition, and be visible for the visionaries and sometimes for other witnesses as well.

This holographic theory also applies to other apparitions or possibly even a series of apparitions. For example, apparitions that occurred in Heroldsbach, Germany; Eisenberg, Austria; Montichiari, Italy; and Medjugorje, Bosnia-Herzegovina, (Fiebag, 1995). This interpretation corresponds with both the Leaky-Embargo-Hypothesis developed by Professor James Deardorff (1986), as well as with my own Mimikry-Hypothesis (Fiebag, 1990, 1993, 1994, 1995).

The Mimikry-Hypothesis tries to explain the various apparitions and behaviors of possible ETIs throughout the centuries by suggesting that we consider them as virtual manifestations that have been adapted to our cultural-sociological and religions belief systems, as well as our fantasies, imaginations, and expectations.

Apparitions of the Virgin Mary would seem to be a logical form of communication initiated by ETIs and directed to us.

The History of the Guadalupe Event

Another important case involving apparitions are the apparitions of Guadalupe, Mexico, in the year 1531. I have chosen this case because it is one of the few cases with a physical artifact still in existence today. This artifact not only indicates that apparitions are real, but that there is a real connection to a strange alien intelligence.

The original report of the series of apparitions of Guadalupe was written down by the Aztec nobleman Antonio Valeriano. He translated it in 1649 from elder Spanish texts into the Mexican dialect Nahuatl and titled it Nican Mopuhua. For the past several centuries the original Spanish reports have been missing, so the Nican Mopuhua is the oldest text of the event in existence today (Siller, 1984).

The Event

Before the sun rose on the 9th of December 1531, Juan Diego, then 57 years old, began walking from his small village of Tolpetlac to the town of Tlatilolco, nine miles away. He wanted to take part in the holy mass while he was there. Juan Diego was an Aztec Indian, who six years before, converted to Christianity. The route he took led him through stony fields and over small hills. In the vicinity of a small hillock, which is known to the Indians as "Tepeyac" and later became the Spanish name "Guadalupe," he became aware that he was hearing an unknown, unearthly music. This music was coming from the top of the hill.

In the Nican Mopuhua we find the following:

To that place he looked up to the hillock, to the side where the sun was rising and from where the wonderful singing originated.
And when the singing suddenly stopped, when it was no longer perceivable, he heard how someone from the top of the hillock called, how someone said: "Juan Deguito!"

And when he reached the top of the hill, he saw a noble lady standing there.
She invited him to come nearer.
Her garment shined like the sun, as if it was reflected by light,
and the stone, the rock on which her feet stood, as if it sparkled of beams;
the glow of her gleamed like jewels, like the most beautiful ornament, the Earth, as if it was shining in the glow of the rainbow.

Juan Diego fell down on his knees. The apparition once more spoke to him and named herself as the "perfect holy Virgin Mary." She claimed to have come so that the people would build her a sanctuary on the Typeyac. She said that Juan Diego was the chosen messenger who should bring this request to the bishop of Mexico City.

Juan Diego went on his way toward the city. After he arrived he had to wait several hours until he was admitted to see bishop Juan de Zumárraga. The bishop listened to him tell his story, but he did not believe his allegations. He sent Juan Diego away with the comment that he wanted to deal with the subject later. Disappointed, Juan Diego went back to the Tepeyac. When he arrived, he again met with the "queen of the heavens." He bewailed his misfortune and asked her to choose another messenger, preferably someone who was better prepared for the mission. However, the Virgin stressed, "It is absolutely necessary that you go personally and that you request that my Will be carried out." The next day Juan Diego met the bishop for a second time. The bishop was obviously very astonished about Juan Diego's persistence, but he was still not ready to believe him. He sent Juan back and asked him to request some kind of evidence so the bishop could really believe that the "queen of the heavens" had really sent him.

Once again Juan Diego returned to the Tepeyac where the mysterious woman was waiting for him. He informed her about the bishop's request and the Virgin replied:

It's all very well my little son. Tomorrow you shall come back to this place and then you will bring the bishop the evidence he demands. Now, go! I will wait for you here tomorrow.

The following morning, the 12th of December 1531, some extraordinary and important events occurred. In the Nican Mopuhua we find the following:

She said to him, "Go up my smallest son, on the top of the hill where you have seen me and where I gave the orders to you. You will see different flowers there. Pick them, collect them, put them together. Then come back down to me, bring them to me, to my presence."

And Juan Diego went up on the hill, and when he reached the top he admired the flowers and was surprised at how many different types of blooming flowers there were. They were nice and beautiful even though it wasn't their time to bloom. At that time of the year everything was covered with frost.

The Nican Mopuhua repeatedly states how wonderful and amazing this was. In spite of the strong winter there on the top of the Tepeyac, beautiful flowers were blooming. This was occurring in a place where even in the Summertime nothing more was normally found besides "a lot of rough rocks, prickly pears, brambles, nopals, and mesquite cactuses."

Juan Diego picked the flowers as he was ordered to and put them into his tilma, an upper garment similar to an apron. Then he went back to the light figure who was waiting for him at the bottom of the hill. "...and as she saw the flowers, she took them with her venerable hands, then she put them back into his tilma and she said to him:

My smallest son, these various flowers are the evidence, the sign, that you shall bring to the bishop. In my name you shall tell him, so that he will be able to recognize my request and shall consequently turn my desire into reality. And you, who are my messenger, into you is set absolute confidence.

And I command you with great stringency that nowhere else than in the presence of the bishop shall you open your tilma and show him what you are bearing."

Once more, Juan Diego went his way down, and once more he had to wait several hours until he received permission to meet the bishop. This time he was not alone in the room with him. Some high officials of the church and some other Indians were present. Juan Diego fell down on his knees in front of bishop Zumárraga. He told him what happened and that he had picked the flowers on the Tepeyac and that this was the evidence he had requested. The Nican Mopuhua reports as follows:

"Here they are, please receive them. And then he opened his white tilma in which she had put the flowers.

And at that moment, when the splendid flowers fell down to the ground, there the tilma transformed into an omen. Suddenly, there appeared the beloved image of the Perfect Lady, of the Holy Virgin Mary. When the bishop and all of those who were there in the room recognized it, they fell down on their knees and admired it greatly."

Faced with this evidence, Zumárraga was finally convinced: as the apparition ordered on the top of the Tepeyac, a little chapel was built. In 1695 it was replaced by a large cathedral. In 1754, Pope Benidict the 14th recognized The Miracle of Guadalupe (which is the name that replaced the original Tepeyac).

Forthcoming popes not only place emphasis on the validity of this apparition, but have also granted Guadalupe a higher status. In 1976, a new basilica was built that has a capacity to hold ten thousand people.

John Paul II was the first pope to visit Guadalupe in 1981, 450 years after the apparitions first appeared. He visited again in the Spring of 1990. Today, Guadalupe is an integrated part of the capital of Mexico. More than 20 million pilgrims travel to Guadalupe every year and it is one of the biggest sanctuaries of the Catholic church.

The Mysterious Properties of the Tilma

As previously stated, it is the image left upon the tilma that makes the event of Guadalupe an extraordinary one. The colorful figure of Mary on the tilma of Juan Diego measures a total of 142 cm. In past centuries, the figure was repeatedly partially painted over. For example, the hands were made smaller to make them appear more Mexican-like. This is detectable through infrared photography. However, we still have in our possession the original image that appeared so suddenly and in the presence of several people in the year 1531.

During the past several decades, a large number of scientific analyses have been made, both on the image and on the material of the tilma. The results of these examinations are of great interest.

First, the tilma itself is a garment that was woven from rough agave grains. Normally these grains, even under the most careful handling and care, do not last more than 20 years. However, since the tilma of Juan Diego is now over 450 years old, this means it has lasted 20 times longer than it should have, and without any sign of deterioration.

In spite of the passing of 450 years, the colors on the tilma retain remarkable brightness and vitality.

What is even more astonishing is the fact that the image was not protected by a pane of glass during the first several centuries. It was preserved in a small, open but moist chapel and incessantly exposed to incense and the smoke of countless candle lights. Invalids have placed the tilma on their bodies, millions have touched it, and hundreds of thousands have kissed it. Pieces of jewelry and private belongings have been placed on it, as well as swords and sabers. A bio-physicist named Phillip Callahan from the University of Florida, measured the energy mass of the ultraviolet light of the candle lights in close proximity of the tilma in 1973. According to his investigation, the light emissions over the last 450 years should have destroyed the colors a long time ago. "Too intensive ultraviolet light blanches all the color pigments, whether they are organic or inorganic by nature. Blue will fade especially fast." (Callahan, 1981). Somehow, all the colors have survived to this day.

In 1936, the German Nobel prize winner Richard Kuhn of the University of Heidelberg, received a sample of the fabric for examination. The sample was a red and yellow grain, directly taken from the image. During his investigations, Kuhn was able to conclude that no colors were actually on or in the grains. This means neither animal, plant, nor mineral coloring matter was used: "The [possibility that] synthetic colors were used was excluded because synthetics were not in use for another three hundred years." (Quote by Johnston, 1981).

In 1946, a microscopic analysis was made directly from the fabric for the first time. The results confirmed those of Richard Kuhn. In addition, it was determined that the image was definitely not a painting because no brush marks were found. A renewed examination in 1954, by the Mexican physicist Francisco Ribera, led to the same result. The Catholic Guadalupe specialist Francis Johnston writes, "If the image isn't a painting, what else is it?" (Johnston, 1981).

In 1964, an analysis of the image itself was made by two photo experts from Kodak (Callahan, 1981). They determined that the image "definitely has the character of a photograph." An infrared examination by Philipp Callahan and Jody Smith in May 1979, showed the absence of a prepared canvas, as well as a ground-coat or a protective coat of varnish. "The infrared photographs do not show any brush marks, and the absence of any glue is obvious because of the many unfilled gaps which are visible in the material. Such a phenomenon is fantastic...It was found that the pink color on the image is able to let infrared light pass through. This is another mystery. Most pink pigments are normally impervious to infrared light, but this is not the case for those pigments on the image." (Callahan, 1981).

In 1929, the Mexican photographer Alfonso Gonzales discovered that the eyes of the figure on the tilma were obviously reflecting a human face. He announced his discovery, but it was kept secret by the church and eventually was simply forgotten.

More than 30 years later on the 29th of May 1951, the illustrator Carlos Salinas examined an enlargement of the Madonna's face (on the tilma). Using a magnifying glass, he discovered that the pupil of the right eye contained the image of a bearded man. Consequently, the arch bishop of Mexico City established a committee of inquiry. On the 11th of December 1955, the members of this committee not only confirmed the discovery, but were also able to state that in all probability the face was that of Juan Diego.

Further examinations by oculists, opticians, and physicists showed further details. For example, the oculist Rafael Chavoignet stated (quoted in Johnston, 1981): "With the most possible carefulness I studied the eyes and, indeed, I observed the image of a man in the cornea of both eyes. The distortion on the position of the image is identical to what would be produced in a normal eye."

In 1962, the optician Charles Wahlig investigated the tilma one again, but this time with other opticians. They produced a twenty-five fold enlargement of the eyes and discovered not only two further reflected faces, but were also able to reconstruct the geometric configuration of those people in the moment of the emergence of the image. "At the time when Juan Diego delivered the flowers to the bishop, our Blessed Lady was really present in the room, but intended to stay invisible. In place of that, she wanted to leave a visible, enduring symbol of her presence on the tilma of Juan Diego. It appears to be an authentic image of herself, as if she was there in the room and observed the event as it unfolded. The image is perfect in every detail, including the reflections of Juan Diego and the other persons obviously looking over his shoulders. From the position of Juan Diego and the other two people, we can see that they were not able to see the image of the Blessed Lady. The two people are obviously looking at Juan Diego and he, we can assume, was looking at the bishop." (Wahlig, 1972).

Additionally, it should be noted that a renewed examination, carried out in 1986, with electron microscopes and computer analysis by the oculist Jorge Padilla and NASA engineer Jose Tonsman, led to the same result (Tonsman, 1981).

In comparison to other paintings, the two people discovered in the pupils of the eyes were identified, in all likelihood, as the interpreter for bishop Zumárraga and bishop Ramirez y Fuenleal, who was also present during the event. "It must be mentioned that there existed no scientific evidence regarding the eye reflections until v.Helmholtz confirmed them in an extended essay on the eye c.1880. Since it was not possible to catch those reflections until the invention of the camera, we are confronted with an inexplicable scientific phenomenon. Who could have known that in the year 1531, and could have used it?" (Johnston, 1981).

Excluding a Miracle

The results of the various scientific examinations of the image on the tilma of Guadalupe lead us to believe that it is neither a painting, a miracle, nor a later forgery. That leaves us with two possible explanations:

1) The image really was created by the immediate and miraculous influence of the Holy Mary of God and does not need further interpretation,


2) After considering all known factors in connection with its origin, we try to explain the formation in a logical and rational way.

Without any doubt, in the religious literature there is a great willingness to make use of the first possibility. According to the church, it was a divine miracle, worked in the moment when Juan Diego opened his tilma. A closer examination of the circumstances does not appear to be supported by the analyses or the recent literature.

Preparing the "Miracle"

Even at a glance, one can see that there are three parts to the "miracle" involved in the Guadalupe Event. As far as I know, a three-part classification has never been attempted in the religious literature, but it is evident when we take a closer look at the issues.

1) Temporal preparations: In the evening on the 10th of December, Juan Diego conveyed the request of the bishop to the miraculous figure. Her answer was:

It's all right, my little son, you should come back tomorrow so that you can bring the sign to the bishop, which he requested.
It follows that the maker of the "miracle of the blooming flowers" was not able to carry out the miracle at that immediate moment, but instead, needed time to prepare it. So, the direct miracle-working of an all powerful, almighty God can be excluded.

2) Organizing preparations: After Juan Diego has picked the flowers, he has to bring them to the figure of the Holy Mary. Johnston (1981), characterizes this scene the following way: "By opening out his tilma, he filled it with the flowers full of the color mixture and went down to the side where the Lady, surrounded by an oval nimbus of light, waited for him. When he showed her the glimmering magnificence, she arranged it carefully with her own hand."

This supervision of the flowers was necessary to check to make certain a sufficient sample of each flower was taken and that they were arranged in the correct manner. Once more it is demonstrated that this is not a miracle of the classical kind, but rather, a methodical and systematic procedure.

The organizing preparations also include another important fact. In the Nican Mopuhua it states:

"And you who are my messenger, into you is set absolute confidence. And I command to you with great stringency that nowhere else than in the presence of the bishop shall you open your tilma and show to him what you are bearing."

These instructions are a sheer unmasking for the entire event: a miracle, worked by God should be, by all definitions of those miracles, absolutely independent of the behavior of given people. In this case however, it becomes obvious that the intended miracle has definite conditions tied to it, not the least of which is the "not opening of the tilma" until a specific moment.

3) The miracle of the image itself: The creation of the image, as indicated by the preparation, was dependent on the so-called "flowers" Juan Diego was wearing in his tilma. In the Nican Mopuhua we have the following:

And when the different precious flowers fell to the ground, there the tilma changed into a sign and suddenly there appeared the beloved image of the perfect Lady, of the Holy Virgin Mary, the mother of God, in the form and shape as it is today.
There is an apparent and obvious causative connection: the "flowers" (in a well-defined and controlled formation) and the opening of the tilma, effect the creation of the image, namely exactly in the moment that was dictated by the apparition. This is a repeated indication that all of this has nothing to do with a miraculous event. It was an orchestrated and coordinated event that was dependent on physical space-time principles.

Therefore, it follows that issue number 1 must be rejected. The creation of the Guadalupe image was not due to the effects of the immediate and miraculous influence of the Virgin Mary or God.

Reconstructing the Real Event

Since the image nevertheless exists, and since there are the specific features mentioned above, nothing more remains than the possibility that we-contrary to the declarations made by theology-are dealing with a very rational and explainable event, even if every detail has yet to be explained. In other words, the projection of the Virgin Mary image by strange, and most likely extraterrestrial technologically advanced intelligences.

In this particular case, we are able to reconcile all of the contradictions given by the working of a divine miracle. Contrary to an all mighty God, even a very highly developed technological civilization has to comply with physical principles. It is possible that even an ETI would not be able to react immediately to sudden requirements, for example, a sign for the purpose of evidence. An ETI would need time to prepare the "sign" and would not be in a position to avoid a coordinated plan. If we presuppose that this was an operation by ETIs, we can reconstruct the event at Guadalupe in the following manner:

During the third apparition the ETIs who reveal themselves as the Virgin Mary, declare their willingness to give a visible sign, a piece of evidence to the chosen messenger. Basically, they decide to provide some kind of a visual image of the holograph-like projection. However, because of understandable circumstances, a photo could not have been created before the moment that Juan Diego was in the direct vicinity of the bishop. An earlier creation would have been named as a forgery immediately.

The ETIs make the necessary preparations on the top of the Tepeyac. The flowers or something that looked like flowers contained an emulsion paint or was an emulsion paint. Johnston (1981) writes about a mixture of colors. The flowers are taken from Juan Diego and are inspected by the projected figure. The contacted visionary is warned not to open the tilma. We can infer that this means not to let the light come in because of the sensitivity of the material. This was to make certain that the "photo" was made at precisely the right moment.

It is not until after Juan Diego arrives in Mexico City, that he opens his tilma. Even the religious interpreter Johnston (1981) states the following about this event: "It was as if Juan Diego's tilma was a color film, ready for the photographing of God's mother. Although not visible to the human eye, at exactly the moment when Juan Diego reflected himself in her eyes [the photograph was taken]. This is an unbelievable fact and after more than four hundred and fifty years this information is now, finally brought to light and confirmed by modern science."

Indeed, the event that created the image on the tilma was not photography in the sense that we are familiar with today. The tilma not only acted both as a lens and as color film, but also as the object of the photograph. That means the figure itself stayed invisible during the entire incident. Perhaps it was some kind of infrared photography which made visible a wave-length that is not visible to the human eye. Without a doubt, there had to be something in the room, otherwise it would not have been possible for Juan Diego and the other people in the room to be reflected in the eyes of the figure.

Even if the process of photography cannot be understood in detail because our technology has not developed far enough, we undoubtedly can recognize the technological relationship of this event.

Significant circumstantial evidence is involved in the nature of the colors. There is a high probability that the color was produced synthetically. Unfortunately, no analysis of this type has been undertaken because this idea was excluded from the beginning.

Perhaps the image does contain further evidence of its true origin. How can the clues leading to such evidence be found? It may be possible that they are hidden somewhere within the image itself. It is clear that with further scientific analysis there will be much more to discover from the tilma of the Guadalupe event.

By Johannes Fiebag, Ph.D. ©1997


Dr. Johannes Fiebag was born in 1956, and is Germany's leading abduction research specialist. He has published many books about alien contact in ancient and modern times, and four books specifically about the abduction phenomenon in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland.

Dr. Fiebag founded the CE-IV-Report, a newsletter for abductees, and he also organized an annual meeting called Project Exchange that allows abductees to network with one another. In addition to CE-IV-Report and Project Exchange, Dr. Fiebag has also formed an interdisciplinary organization of Psychiatrists, psychologists and other medical professionals who work to help traumatized abductees. http://www.sagenhaftezeiten.com/fiebag/
RGB - Serenity is not freedom from the storm but peace within the storm (Native American Proverb)
Revenir en haut

MessagePosté le: 08/07/2008 20:11:10    Sujet du message: Publicité

PublicitéSupprimer les publicités ?
Revenir en haut
Montrer les messages depuis:   
Poster un nouveau sujet   Répondre au sujet    Le Cercle des ufologues Index du Forum -> Forum in English -> Investigations made by the forum about unexplained mysteries -> Fatima events
Toutes les heures sont au format GMT + 2 Heures
Page 1 sur 1

Sauter vers:  

Portail | Index | Créer un forum | Forum gratuit d’entraide | Annuaire des forums gratuits | Signaler une violation | Conditions générales d'utilisation

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2017 phpBB Group
Traduction par : phpBB-fr.com
MylMatriX theme for phpBB version 2+
Created by SGo
Based on the original subSilver Created by subBlue design